Teri discusses the sign, "system" in ASL. Pretty awkward isn't it?
52 Responses to “System? Y-System?!?”
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(Color/FullView - Illustrated by Deaf Artist, Rob Walker)
Teri aka- Deaf Dish, the Late Night vLogger--Minuit Teri. While she is busy during the daylight hours, she finds time to transform herself in a vLogger in the wee hours of the night. Her topics range from political to social to beliefs to arts and even include her own homage to the comedic giant Lucille Ball in her editions of "I Love Teri".-
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May 31st, 2007 at 9:38 am
I wasn’t aware that there was an alternative sign to the traditional S-shape sign. Does anyone know how the Y-shape sign came up in the first place, since it does look odd.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:49 am
Some systems can be warped anyway.
It just depends on the characteristics of the system itself. Is a system always the way your colleague sees it to be? I don’t think it is always solid or sturdy.
I have seen a different sign like start with S and move to Y. (a little of both, not S all the way or Y all the way like the two signs you just showed but the sign has both letters.)
May 31st, 2007 at 10:16 am
Y system? huh….never seen it being used that way ever in my life this far anywhere! Is it an isolated area that uses y system? I use S always and I refuse to change.
All people that I know and have seen, do use S.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:21 am
Oh LOL!!!
Well… all of my life, I grew up knowing the sign for “system” is “S” sign… It’s first time I see “Y” sign on the internet! I’m staying with that “S” sign to reduce the confusion with saying “what’s that sign?” and since many people know what this means.
Interesting vblog.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:20 pm
I am glad you brought it up because it bothered me. Where did that y-system come from? Anyway, thanks!
Lois
May 31st, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Are we in debate on a particular sign right or wrong?
Ummm, I would have said, “Who cares.”
Like Jay Kreiger’s one of his vlog messages, the most important aspect of the conversation is to get a message *across*.
Just my .02
May 31st, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Enjoyed your vlog discussing the two signs for “system”. Yes, I have noticed ‘Y’ sign only in recent vlogs and knew what it was because some vloggers mouthed “system”! You can see how beneficial it is when a vlogger mouths words!
I prefer ‘S” for “system” which I learned almost from the start. ‘Y’ almost resembles the sign for “same thing / no change”.. in a slightly different hand movement. It is what we use here in this area….
I would suggest we stick with ‘S’ for “system” to avoid serious misunderstandings. Sometimes it is necessary to use initialized signs to represent terms or words.
Just my opinion
May 31st, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Y system? (why system?) lol I agree It is very awkard. I stick with ‘S” for system.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:24 pm
I prefer use “S” system sign, instead of, “Y” system sign, because it looks right.
It’s up to you.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:46 pm
You seemed comfortable with signing “S” in the first vlog. Stick with your comfort. I saw you about 2x signing “S” then changing to “Y”…..:-)
May 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Yeah, I have to admit I am one of those people converting from S to Y for some reasons. Y looks like a much bigger handshape making the sign SYSTEM looking bigger which is really the concept itself. I didn’t think it looks weaker when using the Y shape. I have seen the Y shape using by others here in the East..sometimes s-y combined but doesn’t that break the rule of ASL?
Also language changes over time as we recognize the effort to avoid initialized signs and making it more of a handshape sign such as the sign RED, FAIL, etc. However we still borrow initialized signs such as FAMILY, COMMUNICATION, CLASS, etc. which are acceptable especially when using both hands simultaneously. So that means the sign SYSTEM with an S is acceptable anyway. But again, it is good to analyze why change to the Y handshape.
Good discussion, Teri! Get well!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Theres just simply too many signs that use first letter anyway — we attack only a few of them, and its just a tip of iceberg.
For example, the following signs have first letter used… (they do have alternative or true origins, but we all just moved on with their evolutions)
view
person/people
cup
computer (when used on arm or on forehead)
etc.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Want try something awkward?
Try these sign in order .. Y standard Y system.
Then sign ‘Y silly Y system’.
How about ‘Y similar Y system’?
What do you guys think?
I guess I have habit of signing “S system”
How do you sign “drafting” and “engineer”? Do you sign Y drafting or Y engineer? Try sign “Y engineer Y system”. Good flow or awkward?
Have a good day!
- Mark M
May 31st, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Mine is S-sign! I don’t feel comfortable to use Y-sign.
Another example of impossible to change sign… Water! If you want to change its sign, you would have to use two-arm sign or a few seconds more on one-arm sign for “water” and it is very hard to change. Are we running out of our creativity? Thanks for bringing this one up.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Hi there,
I will response in my vlog shortly
May 31st, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Forgot to add one thing.
When I first saw Joey Baer sign Y “system” I was taken back but I often wonder if I could adapt to that sign or not.
- Mark M
May 31st, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Ha! I love it! Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, yes, yes! It is very annoying to see the new sign for system. It is silly to stop using the first letter of word for every sign. Water? Ha! Navybeagle, you are right. I think it was Aiden the strange girl who started that weird sign. I always shudder seeing that sign, y-system. Good vlog, Teri.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:29 pm
I first saw it with Joey Baer then Aidan.
I’ve never seen it with anyone else, then I started seeing that with Barb DiGi.
Me…I’ve been using the “S” system sign.
I, too, wondered if I should modify that sign or not…
May 31st, 2007 at 6:45 pm
i use “S” than “y” i agreed with him. hey it’s good example! of course i love art stuff anyway u get idea think pencil as size of thumb draw it ok then look other one THICKED OF PENCIL WITH “S”! thick drawing which one will stronger look as view?! of course S! S IS MORE many of sysmbol of “SUPER”,”STONE”, “SERIOUS”, “STRONG” and many of word as stronger than Y it’s perfect example. i hope it’s help good example?
Joshua “Vampbat” Womick
May 31st, 2007 at 7:10 pm
This is a complete waste of time. Everyone knows there’s “Regional Signs”. Texans have different signs than people, say, in Washington. Respect and appreciate the different signs.
Instead of criticizing signs, why not discuss something more worthwhile?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Y-S-System, You are absolutely wrong. It is not a regional sign at all. All of us sign the word, system with the letter, S all the time. The y- system sign surfaced very recent in the vlogland. I NEVER SEE THAT SIGN ALL MY LIFE! I TRAVEL ACROSS THE US OFTEN AND NEVER SEE IT EXCEPT IN SEVERAL VLOGS. It is not a waste of time discussing this sign. I am sick of people who feel free to change signs without asking ASL masters or linguists. Teri, you did the right thing.
May 31st, 2007 at 8:57 pm
IamMine
you first saw Joey then Aiden. Does Aiden copycat his sign? COPYCAT AGAIN! YIKES!
May 31st, 2007 at 9:02 pm
I grew up oral for 19 years and learned English language and its proper principal way of using in gammar, etc, etc in public schools.
Then I learned ASL at Gallaudet back in 1966 and learned the language from the students. There were no class rooms of learning the proper way of using ASL.
Now, it is 2007. Are there any ASL courses in Deaf schools or mainstreaming? Do we need to start having bilingual courses for all deaf children so when they grow up like ourselves right now, we will all would know the proper way of signing?
I look at my two deaf grandchidren right now, wondering if they will have ASL language courses in the next 15 years in their schools.
If we don’t start getting bilingual courses for the deaf chidren, they(my grandkids) will be in the same situation that you all are doing right now,…talking and debating “Which is the proper way of signing…..”system”.
Bilingually yours,
John Egbert
May 31st, 2007 at 9:43 pm
If u rather not use S sign cuz of SEE
What about W use sign for water change to A ??????
May 31st, 2007 at 10:38 pm
My response.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:44 pm
I am more comfortable with the S-shape sign for system. Why don’t you do a poll and see how many people prefer the S or Y sign?
May 31st, 2007 at 11:02 pm
I personally hate the Y-system sign. A couple of individuals started using it locally, and the local community has been very resistant - nobody else has adopted it, period. I don’t see it in vlogs, except for 4 people. (not that I watch many, but…) I think this fear of initialized signs is going too far. We SHOULD resist initialized signs that are artificial and do not go with what the community did before SEE came on the scene and all that, yes, but there is NOTHING wrong with the S-system sign. This Y-system sign is one of the stupidest attempts at excising initialized signs I’ve ever seen, in my opinion.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:01 am
Maybe you overlooked my point about the Y-sign in my last comment.
Just a few minutes ago, I saw the Y- sign again in Aidan’s vlog… it sure looks like the sign for “same” but slightly different. So, it is possible that some people misunderstood and thought the Y-sign meant system, not “same”! Just wondering….
AND if we oppose initialized signs, then we must think of a sign for “state”, “uncle”, “aunt”, “government”, “church”, “computer” (on forearm), “TV”, “background”, “Monday”, “Tuesday”, Wednesday”, and I can go on and on….
I would rather have some initialized signs to enhance our understanding in our discussions! No need to fear SEE. Keep in mind that I learned ASL, never SEE
June 1st, 2007 at 12:01 am
In Minnesota and parts of Canada, we sign it more like some people’s sign for LASAGNA, haha.
bent, thumb-out B hands, palm down, fingertips facing the center, then move hands apart as they kind of wave bye-bye to each other.
makes me think of those hierarchy flowcharts, or maybe a geological cross section where you can see all the peaks, valleys, and layers of the rock system. or someting. heh.
so, for that variant of the sign for SYSTEM, no S needed, and no Y needed.
it’s perfectly fine to have variations in signs. usually they are regional, but sociolinguistic variation can also occur based on who you converse with, no matter where they are. language exists within the community that uses it (from 2 people to billions of people). it’s really fun to notice the differences and talk about them, but it doesn’t make one group’s sign wrong and another’s right. they just both exist.
some SEE signs do break the conventions of ASL sign formation, and that’s one reason many people have a problem with many SEE signs (oppression and linguicism play a part in people’s reactions to SEE signs, too!). but as far as what is the “correct” way to sign something - the answer is always “the way that people use and understand it is right.” - this is true for any human language and any sociolinguistic group of language users.
fun stuff. thanks for bringing it up.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:03 am
LOL, Tom!!!
Do another film!!! *evil grin*
I’m with Candace - do a poll!!
Oh never mind…you beat me to it. :p
gonna vote now….
June 1st, 2007 at 12:18 am
Many old signs use first letters of a word and does not necessarily mean it’s SEE. I use S for system for all of my 40 (something) years of life. I doubt I used that word when I was five but, you get the meaning. Y system is awkward. Why do some of us feel the need to attack some words because of first letter that is involved?
If it’s been around for ages, let it be. I would cringe if someone use ING, EST, TION, etc these kinds of SEE is definitely something worth attacking.
I never saw the Y system until i kept seeing several vloggers use it after they realized it and you can see in their mind they are “oops i’m using first letter of word to sign this word”. Finally, you brought it up for discussion. For a while I was like “where did that y system come from?” I definitely agree with your friend on this.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:26 am
I agreed with you it feel weak. But I just look whole picture and the “Y” system sign looked like old system that never change. I felt that “Y+System” is more of “SAME SYSTEM” My feel that “S” system sign is better than “Y”. However, I m open mind and listen your opinions about this. Does it making sense to you?
June 1st, 2007 at 12:38 am
I usually sign with”S” system, I am from Midwest area. It depends on where they come from like a region sign as various sign language.
I prefer use “S” system.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:30 am
Just my lil 2 cents - y-system sign looks like the sign for architecture. Or am I wrong?
June 1st, 2007 at 1:52 am
Hello,
I stick with hand sign “S” System ……… it very common sense … period.
The “Y” hand sign is confuse …….. it look like sign called “SAME” so forget it and it NOT MAKE SENSE!
Please ask Professional expert “DEAF” Teachers with ASL classes to get it right eh! I bet any Professional Deaf Teachers person will go along to get the vote to agree with teach them that sign “S” System! HAPPY SMILE ASL STYLE DEAF LIFE!
Davy
June 1st, 2007 at 3:06 am
Hi all,
Good discourse!
FYI, I already set up a poll the first thing this morning. I guess it is too far down on the sidebar — it seems many readers miss it!?!?
Gotta go — play the card game with the ladies tonight. Yes, I will take it easy!
I will follow up on this sometime this weekend.
June 1st, 2007 at 3:18 am
I rather stick with s=sign. Thats it!
June 1st, 2007 at 4:15 am
Yes, it was my first time to see “Y” sign, it bothered me so much, it looks like as if someone was talking about measuring something or whatever. I would prefer to stick with “S” as you indicated that it is a strong sign, I agree with you.
If ASL books say “S”, then stick with it, why change it and confuse everyone.
June 1st, 2007 at 4:17 am
OMG! Not another one! I (tried) to live through Total Comunnication, and TC survived in many ways, I can see that from the bloggers on DF.
I feel that deafies need more time to make a decision about this. This is *not* a Gallaudet uprising, it involves ALL OF US!
Lantana, Lantana’s Latitude
June 1st, 2007 at 8:14 am
Just like with name signs, many are arbitrary. Many are affiliated with appearances or personality, but many aren’t. Most are initialized with the first letter of their names. Isn’t that breaking the ASL rule? I don’t think so. For sign language, it’s the same. For decades, people have been signing system with the “S” handshape. Now, all of sudden, it’s being challenged to change into a “Y” handshape. I can understand that language is constantly evolving. I don’t argue with that point. But I agree with linguists that language isn’t abruptly changed within a short period of time. It takes time for language to change. It has to be widely agreed upon by the majority of the population. Also I agree with those people who replied to this vlog that the old way of signing system is widely acceptable in the Deaf-World. It’s not necessarily affiliated with the English language. I liked how Teri’s colleague made it appear solidified, sturdy, and set. Personally, if I had to change it to something else other than ‘S’ I would go with the the way many Canadians and northern states sign it as if they were signing lasagna (as stated in Gally Grad’s reply) rather than with the ‘Y.’ It’s just too weird for my own comfort.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:19 am
I agree with u Teri and, Lantana!! That is exactly the problem we have in our own deaf community where we keep on dividing in signs, and I wish We can all work on getting our ASL going by now without going back and forth in diversities of our regional or states or catorigies of deafness. No wonder, we havent gotten no where that Our language of ASL hasnt been presented as our language by the Government yet because it is so confusing and conflicting! I ll stick by what I have learned since I was a young child and I thought I signed pretty good for a deaf person until I started working in a deaf school, and I realized , whoa!, I am signing English and ASl combined and I didnt think that was a bad thing , but yet I do understand the point of needing ASL for young childrens, and I am in favor for it, but when we become older, I believe that We do need to have an balance in using ASL and ENGLISH! We are still stuck in a Rock and Water when it come to our own language. We cannot even come together to work for our own best interests, because I see that the best leaderships out there in deaf community has it s own ideas and changes ASL yet not to our whole deaf community’s acceptance as we are still struggling still with getting the ASL going and be our language. I see all the sudden the new signs and all the politics behinds the new signs of words are full of craps. It is still an stereotype which I thought we are all trying so hard to avoid and yet, we are keeping on going back on the circles! No wonder, we havent gotten so far with the Government with our wanting to be proven that we re not handicapped! I might have typed wrong thing but my point now the issues in our community are that we must work together but we havent even started because we all have different opinions and we still have divided ourselves in stereotypes much more than we want to admit, so we re no better than anyone else. I am talking about our own deaf community which is pretty big and Imagine if we all can finally agree on ASL that we can accept as an universal, then there is no mistake and it shall be ours! Of course there ll always be accents, and regional and states, and foreign! At least ASl should finally be our language!
June 1st, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Hi, Deafies,
I use S-system. HOWEVER, I was encouraged to use Y-system while I was a student at Galladuet University. Joey was there at the same time as I was there. Obvously, it is a regional sign. After I left Gallaudet, I use the S-system over again, because it is the majority’s prefence!!
deafk
June 1st, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Anyway, when I saw Joey using Y-system, I said so that is where it comes from!! lol…
deafk
June 1st, 2007 at 5:10 pm
When they sign Y-system, I thought they meant by the word “measurement” or “drafting” or “playing”, ha. Also all my life, I have never seen the “Y-system” until recently I begin seeing it on other vlogs. I stick to “S-system”!
June 1st, 2007 at 5:15 pm
LOL! Far out discuss about y and s as for system! Good point!
June 1st, 2007 at 9:09 pm
I, personally, do not see a COMPELLING enough reason to change to the “Y” sign. Like my friend, Dracula says, what about the ASL sign for “water”? That (water) sign has been used since before SEE; in fact, I think it goes way back to the first CaveDeafie! Lol…
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:57 am
I like S better because I use Y when asking someone to stay.
Just my 2 cents.
June 2nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Where can I e mail you?
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 am
[...] Teri Sentelle’s Vlog - CLICK HERE [...]
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
I still keep “S” for both strong or weak systems. I use (sign) “lousy” first before “system” sign with face expression “disgust-look” or “angry look” for good or strong system.
June 22nd, 2007 at 3:23 am
Old signs don’t have to be removed at all. I thought why not old and new signs keep alive and be used. For example, some people prefer to talk in modern engilsh-style and some prefer to talk in regular spoken english. My opinion, creating more than just one sign for each word is a nice idea just like any others spoken languages that there have few words for one same purpose. What do you all think? Thanks
June 16th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Hello, Nice to see you again. I am from csdr, it’s was old name is Alma Hernandez and graduated in June 15, 2006 and I love to watch your photography, I had to save my make of photoshop and some time photography.
so, I like to keep my american sign language as forever that is important to communcaiton with and writting english, deaf peoples can do. They are nature deaf for culture. No fair for hearing can hear and use voice and Deaf can’t to hearing and hard communication, anyone are decided to asl to communication with writting, but anyone have a video-phone and mobile-video-phone and sidekick or blackberry by anyone deaf are happy to can use pager than cell. I am always agree on world need communication as forever and never stop.